Agree or Disagree?

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Agree or Disagree?

Post by Thecrazykid3649 on 10/23/2010, 5:38 pm

Inspired by Mercy's ''Zombie Apocolypse'' thread, I decided to make a thread in similar style with different weekly questions. Every week, I'll post a new statement and ask whether you agree or disagree with the statement and why. I'll try not to post questions that elicit a simple ''yes'' or ''no'' but rather a deep and incisive response. If you are interested, I would like to see your input and I hope we can conduct some thought-provoking conversations here. I don't want this thread to end up like the ''Religion'' thread, so please be respectful to each other and their opinions. However, this is not to say you can't disagree with one another. Wink with that being said, here is this week's statement:

*New Statment!

WEEK 2: Chlidren should be seen and NOT heard.


Agree or Disagree? Why?

*** Remember to check back each saturday for the latest statement.


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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by SnowFallsSlow on 10/23/2010, 6:20 pm

Disagree.

There's not really a such thing as "equality." Some babies are born crying already, some have to be slapped to ensure that they're actually breathing. Some are born with serious complications, others perfectly healthy. Some are born into a family with love to spare, others are a burden from the second they're conceived.

I assume by the capital BORN that you mean babies. If that's not the case, my disagreement still stands.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Music_Hero2779 on 10/23/2010, 6:41 pm

Disagree

Well for one, men and women arn't born. People grow into men or women. Also it depends one someone's stance of equality, you could go with what Snow said, or be like me and say all should be equal but in this world it seems untrue. Though in the U.S.A we all are supposed to be equail and free, somtimes(A LOT of the time) it doesn't feel that way.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by SnowFallsSlow on 10/23/2010, 9:53 pm

Wait, hang on! I'm not saying there shouldn't be equality, I'm saying there isn't.

But, then again, I'm not sure there should be equality, either. Equality in opportunity, maybe: everyone has the same choices, at first, anyway. But, if I chose to go through high school and do all of my homework and make good grades, whereas someone else decides to party through high school and barely squeaks through, I don't see how that person and myself should go to the same college.

If I work harder, there should be an incentive.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Music_Hero2779 on 10/23/2010, 10:08 pm

Sorry didn't mean to say you ment people weren't equal, I just ment it as we all sould be equal but when you think about it no one really is anymore. Anyways, like how you put it in this last post^^

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Rain on 10/23/2010, 11:04 pm

Well in what context does "equality" refer too? Spiritual equality as in our rights as individuals and humans, or our manifested state as in our health and appearance. Obviously some people are going to be born into different scenarios with different opportunities, and some are going to be born with birth defects or mild retardation, so I fail to see how really anybody is generally born on equal footing with any other. The idea is to treat people as equals and look past those differences, therefore providing equal opportunities for one's self to ACHIEVE successes. A pretty linear question if you ask me, but oh well. Can't complain too much.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by archiesangel on 10/25/2010, 9:14 pm

I believe that man and woman should have the same rights and all but I have to say that in positions of power I tend to encourage men as leaders. I also believe that women should not be in the army as soldiers. Because one day a man will be put into the draft and say wait there are women in the army why aren't they being drafted annnd we lose all our mothers and sisters. Also it's a proven fact that men are more willing to forget the mission and go save the injured woman than obey orders which could come back to bite him and possibly he's whole team or more.
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Naked Snake on 10/25/2010, 11:55 pm

Let's cut the philosophical questions about what measure is a man/woman and blabbity blab; the question is, are men and women equal? And here is the final answer:

Whatever differences in physiology or psychology men and women may have (the former being obvious, the latter being well-documented), they are human beings and should have the same rights, responsibilities and opportunities as the opposite sex. Period.

I also believe that women should not be in the army as soldiers.

The women who fight and die for your liberty would like a word.

Also it's a proven fact that men are more willing to forget the mission and go save the injured woman than obey orders which could come back to bite him and possibly he's whole team or more.

Soldiers in general are trained to never leave a comrade behind. Gender is irrelevant. They might be more willing to go back if it's a woman, out of chivalry, but generally speaking, they'd go back anyway because that's their duty. Their duty is to one another. THAT is a proven fact.

Besides, the obvious answer to your problem is that men shouldn't serve in the military...

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by archiesangel on 10/26/2010, 5:25 pm

Naked Snake wrote:
I also believe that women should not be in the army as soldiers.

The women who fight and die for your liberty would like a word.
I understand how wrong that sounded and I have nothing at all against these women. Heck, I have a girl friend who might be going into the military. I totally support that. I just wonder where does it cut off? Eventually, to me, it seems a draft will encompass both men and women and then what next, teens? wards of the state? I look at it 'in the long run'. I fully support the women who fought and are fighting.
Besides, the obvious answer to your problem is that men shouldn't serve in the military...

I'm curious as to what this ^ might mean...
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Xenophobic Sponge on 10/26/2010, 8:02 pm

archiesangel wrote:
I'm curious as to what this ^ might mean...

It's the answer to your problem, and it makes logical sense. You say that women shouldn't be in the military because men will ignore the mission in order to save them. The problem is with the men forgetting the mission, not the women. The answer to this would be to disallow men from joining the military, without men in the army there would be nobody to forget the mission and attempt to rescue the women.


Also, by saying that allowing women in the military will lead to the drafting of teens and wards of the state, you do realize that you're insinuating that women are on the same level as children, right?

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Naked Snake on 10/26/2010, 8:44 pm

Xenophobic Sponge wrote:Also, by saying that allowing women in the military will lead to the drafting of teens and wards of the state, you do realize that you're insinuating that women are on the same level as children, right?

To say nothing of the slippery slope fallacy. That sort of thinking is the reason why "allowing gays to get married will mean that men and gay animal corpses can get married someday too" is considered valid logic.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by archiesangel on 10/26/2010, 10:09 pm

Xenophobic Sponge wrote:
archiesangel wrote:
I'm curious as to what this ^ might mean...

It's the answer to your problem, and it makes logical sense. You say that women shouldn't be in the military because men will ignore the mission in order to save them. The problem is with the men forgetting the mission, not the women. The answer to this would be to disallow men from joining the military, without men in the army there would be nobody to forget the mission and attempt to rescue the women.


Also, by saying that allowing women in the military will lead to the drafting of teens and wards of the state, you do realize that you're insinuating that women are on the same level as children, right?

Okay I get what you're saying. And I'm just trying to point out that there has to be some sort of line somewhere.

Naked Snake wrote:
Xenophobic Sponge wrote:Also, by saying that allowing women in the military will lead to the drafting of teens and wards of the state, you do realize that you're insinuating that women are on the same level as children, right?

To say nothing of the slippery slope fallacy. That sort of thinking is the reason why "allowing gays to get married will mean that men and gay animal corpses can get married someday too" is considered valid logic.

http://www.thebalitimes.com/2010/06/15/man-made-to-marry-cow/ o_O
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Naked Snake on 10/26/2010, 10:37 pm


...Is that supposed to prove something? Unless you can definitively find proof that homosexual marriage contributed directly to that man marrying a cow, it's meaningless.

Also,

Wikipedia wrote:Jembrana is a regency (kabupaten) of Bali, Indonesia.

lolgeography

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by archiesangel on 10/27/2010, 9:40 pm

Naked Snake wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:Jembrana is a regency (kabupaten) of Bali, Indonesia.

lolgeography

Dang, Wiki strikes again
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Naked Snake on 10/30/2010, 2:12 pm

First of all, I'd like to make a suggestion: The new statement should be a new post, not an edit to the original, because that just confounds matters.

Second, eh, a little of both. As a kid, I used to hate being marginalized and talked down to. As a grown-up, I realize that's because my head was in my ass half the time. But the other half is what I'm concerned about here. Kids can be surprisingly astute and reasonable. Writing them off one hundred percent of the time as annoying, loudmouth poopers is stupid.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Rain on 11/1/2010, 6:56 am

Naked Snake wrote:First of all, I'd like to make a suggestion: The new statement should be a new post, not an edit to the original, because that just confounds matters.

Second, eh, a little of both. As a kid, I used to hate being marginalized and talked down to. As a grown-up, I realize that's because my head was in my ass half the time. But the other half is what I'm concerned about here. Kids can be surprisingly astute and reasonable. Writing them off one hundred percent of the time as annoying, loudmouth poopers is stupid.

What is with these linear questions? One person answers and there's nothing left for anybody else to say. Perhaps (if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion here) we could talk over something with a little more... conjecture, a little more "pizazz." As for this week, I'll take the devils advocate. Should be entertaining.

I will state now that I do think children should be heard, but only need responses to certain extents. Now, to avoid confusion I would like to also state the need to differentiate being "heard" and having attention "payed" towards one. Clearly, without a mature paradigm to bounce one's growing perception off of, there would be no way for man to progress his processes of thought throught any means aside from random selection. Face it, this world is built and run by adults while children simple fit into the mold. Certainly they fill in tasks and perform chores, but only as a predominant means to achieve faster/more adequate maturity. While childhood is definitely a time that should be enjoyed and cherished, it is also a crucible which should be taken with sincerity, because the world wasn't created to take care of you. Children are here to learn from us so that they too may stake their claims and analyze perceptive value in life.

Generally (and to reiterate), I believe that children are here to learn from us and NOT the other way around (though I am not implying that a converse learning is not possible). They should be taught, heard and corrected, and when their reasonings appear to have reasonable standing they should be praised and encouraged for their insight. Nothing more.



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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Thecrazykid3649 on 11/1/2010, 3:30 pm

First of all, I'd like to make a suggestion: The new statement should be a new post, not an edit to the original, because that just confounds matters

You mean an entirely new thread or a new post within the thread?

What is with these linear questions? One person answers and there's nothing left for anybody else to say.

The statement has only been up for two days and everybody has the entire week to respond. I don't think many people were aware that a new statement was made this week. However, I AM purposely shying away from topics that are too controversial. But the most interesting ones are the most debatable ones. So i'll try to add a little more conjecture to these statements, but I don't want to venture into topics that are too divisive.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Thecrazykid3649 on 11/1/2010, 4:23 pm

I Disagree with this statement.

To say that children should not be heard is saying their feelings and opinions are trival and do not matter. To me, this statement, that a lot of adults pass on as truth, is implying that ignoring them is justified because they are not worth listening to. If you belittle your child's feelings all the time, it'll be easy to neglect them and they WILL grow up to resent you. They'll become unruly and act out for attention.

Children should be tractable and submissive to their parents. But they shouldn't be ignored and disparaged as if they are just an existence and nothing more. That can hurt their self-esteem and damage their morale. Children SHOULD learn from their adult figures, but the ugly truth is some adult figures are NOT fit to be a positive role model for children. Some parents are abusive. Some children are surrouned by adult figures that corrupt them rather then mold them into being upright, scrupulous people. How can those kind of children learn if there is no one to teach them?

Overall, I think this statement is just an example of ugly ageism thats supposedly ''justified''.




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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by SnowFallsSlow on 11/1/2010, 4:34 pm

Agree.

When I was a kid, my parents had four other children to supervise. Talking was largely useless, and yelling was frowned upon. My parents also wouldn't listen to arguments or help us solve them beyond "Both of you, go to your rooms!"

A lot of my problem-solving, people skills, and knowledge comes from the fact that as a child, silence was preferred. I find self-satisfaction in knowing that I'm right, even if know one else knows I'm right.

I was raised to smile, say hello, and then shut up, and I really don't see much problem with it.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Naked Snake on 11/1/2010, 8:23 pm

You mean an entirely new thread or a new post within the thread?

The latter.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Thecrazykid3649 on 11/1/2010, 8:39 pm

Naked Snake wrote:
You mean an entirely new thread or a new post within the thread?

The latter.

Will do.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Thecrazykid3649 on 11/6/2010, 9:05 am

Time for a new statement. :D

***My dissent or assent varies with each statement. Just because I make the statement doesn't mean I agree with it.

This weeks statement:

Week 3:True love IS conditional.

Agree or Disagree? Why?


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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by SnowFallsSlow on 11/6/2010, 2:12 pm

Disagree.

Affection is conditional. If someone you feel affection for slights you, the affection you felt may wither or die altogether. You may become affectionate again, later down the road, but that, too, will be conditional.

Likewise, if someone you feel affection for brings you, say, your favorite flavor of Ice Cream with all the toppings you wanted and none you didn't, your affection for that person, being conditional, would spike upwards.

Love, or "true love," as it has been re-branded, is unconditional. If someone you loved did something that hurt you, the pain would be intense, but you would still love them. If they brought you the aforementioned Ice Cream, you wouldn't love them more than you already did.

If your love for someone is conditional, it's not "true love," and it never was.

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by Thecrazykid3649 on 11/6/2010, 3:38 pm

SnowFallsSlow wrote:Disagree.

Affection is conditional. If someone you feel affection for slights you, the affection you felt may wither or die altogether. You may become affectionate again, later down the road, but that, too, will be conditional.

Likewise, if someone you feel affection for brings you, say, your favorite flavor of Ice Cream with all the toppings you wanted and none you didn't, your affection for that person, being conditional, would spike upwards.

Love, or "true love," as it has been re-branded, is unconditional. If someone you loved did something that hurt you, the pain would be intense, but you would still love them. If they brought you the aforementioned Ice Cream, you wouldn't love them more than you already did.

If your love for someone is conditional, it's not "true love," and it never was.

But doesn't love have a limit? If someone is constantly unfaithful in a relationship, won't your love for them die away?

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Post by SnowFallsSlow on 11/6/2010, 5:25 pm

Not as far as I can tell. You may leave them, or want to, but you will still love them.

Like I said, the pain would be intense, but I think you would love them anyway. Your trust in them might fade.

Besides, at that point in time, it's not really a question of do you love them, but do they love you?

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Re: Agree or Disagree?

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