Re: Who all in this group supports the pairing of Beast Boy and Terra?

by Azrael 9/30/2009, 3:49 pm

BigHazelEyes wrote:Please people, do not bring the comic book into this, the question was soley based on the show.

And the show was based on the comic book and what happened in them. Maybe not completely - lets face it, the show butchered storylines and characters almost routinely - but the broad strokes, yeah. So asking not to bring the comic book in is kind of stupid; it's what the show was based on. Without them, the show Terra would never even have existed anyways, so there's bearing no matter what anyone tries to say.

BigHazelEyes wrote:What do Beast Boy and Raven have in common in the show?

If you'd caught me a year or two ago, I'd still have been up for answering this; but to be perfectly honest, three to four years removed from the show, I just do not care enough about making an argument to really even bother. That just necessitates a long ass post running down the gauntlet of reasons. Which probably wouldn't be heeded anyways - I got tired of putting time and effort into posts no one f***ing reads anyways a long time ago - which defeats the point.

by BigHazelEyes 9/30/2009, 4:01 pm

Azrael wrote:
BigHazelEyes wrote:Please people, do not bring the comic book into this, the question was soley based on the show.
And the show was based on the comic book and what happened in them. Maybe not completely - lets face it, the show butchered storylines and characters almost routinely - but the broad strokes, yeah. So asking not to bring the comic book in is kind of stupid; it's what the show was based on. Without them, the show Terra would never even have existed anyways, so there's bearing no matter what anyone tries to say.

I know it was based on the comic books, but I wanted this question to just focus on the show? PLease don't be mean.

BigHazelEyes wrote:What do Beast Boy and Raven have in common in the show?
If you'd caught me a year or two ago, I'd still have been up for answering this; but to be perfectly honest, three to four years removed from the show, I just do not care enough about making an argument to really even bother. That just necessitates a long ass post running down the gauntlet of reasons. Which probably wouldn't be heeded anyways - I got tired of putting time and effort into posts no one f***ing reads anyways a long time ago - which defeats the point.

by SylverBluTitan 9/30/2009, 4:50 pm

Azrael wrote:
SylverBluTitan wrote:
Azrael wrote:I didn't quite catch that. It sounded like "please shoot me in the face and change my shipping preferences".

Can do.
You, sir, are made of win.

Ocelot, stop making people change their shipping preferences!

(I did get the name right, yes? XDDD)
Oh, hello Sylver. I almost didn't notice you standing over there. Do you like my new opposing-shipper-beating stick?

(Yes, you got the name right. XD)

Why, it is a positively beautiful opposing-shipper-beating stick! Wherever did you find such a wonderful specimen, and where might I acquire one of my own?

And don’t worry about not noticing me, Az. It happens a lot! I suppose I am part ninja? It is a mystery unto myself as well.

by Azrael 9/30/2009, 4:57 pm

BigHazelEyes wrote:I know it was based on the comic books, but I wanted this question to just focus on the show? PLease don't be mean.

... I wasn't.

I scare people. Good to have that cleared up. Now I just need to figure out how to use this to my advantage so I can attack for massive damage.

Also, I was just making a point. I know the question was meant to be about the show. I just have a habit of talking. Even when I don't need to.

SylverBluTitan wrote:Why, it is a positively beautiful opposing-shipper-beating stick! Wherever did you find such a wonderful specimen, and where might I acquire one of my own?

And don’t worry about not noticing me, Az. It happens a lot! I suppose I am part ninja? It is a mystery unto myself as well.

I got it at a store that specializes in shippy weapons. ^^

And perhaps you are. Though I see no ninja weapons. Where are your smoke bombs?

by SylverBluTitan 9/30/2009, 5:12 pm

Azrael wrote:I scare people. Good to have that cleared up. Now I just need to figure out how to use this to my advantage so I can attack for massive damage.

Um, you're Batman. Of course you scare people. Just speak those Two Sacred Words and you have a massive attack. Without having to move.

Don't tell me you've forgotten! D:

Azrael wrote:
SylverBluTitan wrote:Why, it is a positively beautiful opposing-shipper-beating stick! Wherever did you find such a wonderful specimen, and where might I acquire one of my own?

And don’t worry about not noticing me, Az. It happens a lot! I suppose I am part ninja? It is a mystery unto myself as well.
I got it at a store that specializes in shippy weapons. ^^

And perhaps you are. Though I see no ninja weapons. Where are your smoke bombs?

Awesome. XD

...you don't see them cause I'm such a good ninja...

-Throws a smoke bomb-

Although, honestly, I could think of something cooler than a ninja that I could be.

>>

<<

Foo...

by Azrael 9/30/2009, 5:14 pm

SylverBluTitan wrote:
Azrael wrote:I scare people. Good to have that cleared up. Now I just need to figure out how to use this to my advantage so I can attack for massive damage.
Um, you're Batman. Of course you scare people. Just speak those Two Sacred Words and you have a massive attack. Without having to move.

Don't tell me you've forgotten! D:

No, I have not. But the power of those words is immense. Using them carelessly might blow up this entire forum!

Although, honestly, I could think of something cooler than a ninja that I could be.

A ninja turtle?

by SylverBluTitan 9/30/2009, 5:31 pm

Azrael wrote:
SylverBluTitan wrote:
Azrael wrote:I scare people. Good to have that cleared up. Now I just need to figure out how to use this to my advantage so I can attack for massive damage.
Um, you're Batman. Of course you scare people. Just speak those Two Sacred Words and you have a massive attack. Without having to move.

Don't tell me you've forgotten! D:
No, I have not. But the power of those words is immense. Using them carelessly might blow up this entire forum!

Tis true. They are a force not to be taken lightly. But the fact that this power is available...it is comforting and frightening at the same time! Imagine the horror if someone carelessly misused that power! Tell me it's not possible for just anyone to utilize the power!

Azrael wrote:
SylverBluTitan wrote:Although, honestly, I could think of something cooler than a ninja that I could be.
A ninja turtle?

Um...XD Well, I was never much a Ninja Turtle fan, to be honest. It never clicked with me, even though I did watch it sometimes.

...My awesomeness just diminished, didn't it...?

by Azrael 9/30/2009, 5:37 pm

SylverBluTitan wrote:Tis true. They are a force not to be taken lightly. But the fact that this power is available...it is comforting and frightening at the same time! Imagine the horror if someone carelessly misused that power! Tell me it's not possible for just anyone to utilize the power!

Fear not. Only Batman hath trained long enough to utilize the power of the mighty phrase. All others are pale imitators; when they try it, the only thing that explodes is their appendix.

Um...XD Well, I was never much a Ninja Turtle fan, to be honest. It never clicked with me, even though I did watch it sometimes.

...My awesomeness just diminished, didn't it...?

Check out some of the old Eastman/Laird original comics. The Turtles were freaking hardcore. It was badass. More than any of the cartoons (though the 2003 one did take far more cues from the comics). You might like those.

by SylverBluTitan 9/30/2009, 5:44 pm

Azrael wrote:Fear not. Only Batman hath trained long enough to utilize the power of the mighty phrase. All others are pale imitators; when they try it, the only thing that explodes is their appendix.

Oh, that's good! If only little ol' Sylver could command such power as the Batman! Alas, I must attempt to command a different power instead. Hmm...

Azrael wrote:Check out some of the old Eastman/Laird original comics. The Turtles were freaking hardcore. It was badass. More than any of the cartoons (though the 2003 one did take far more cues from the comics). You might like those.

I did enjoy the 2003 cartoon, though most of the time I was confused. Nothing new. -Shrug- Maybe I will check those out. At some piont. My plate, at the moment, is rather full.

by BigHazelEyes 9/30/2009, 6:29 pm

Azrael wrote:
BigHazelEyes wrote:I know it was based on the comic books, but I wanted this question to just focus on the show? PLease don't be mean.
... I wasn't.

I scare people. Good to have that cleared up. Now I just need to figure out how to use this to my advantage so I can attack for massive damage.

Also, I was just making a point. I know the question was meant to be about the show. I just have a habit of talking. Even when I don't need to.

Pkay, you don't scare me and I'm sorry I thiught you were being mean.

SylverBluTitan wrote:Why, it is a positively beautiful opposing-shipper-beating stick! Wherever did you find such a wonderful specimen, and where might I acquire one of my own?

And don’t worry about not noticing me, Az. It happens a lot! I suppose I am part ninja? It is a mystery unto myself as well.
I got it at a store that specializes in shippy weapons. ^^

And perhaps you are. Though I see no ninja weapons. Where are your smoke bombs?

by Azrael 9/30/2009, 6:33 pm

BigHazelEyes wrote:Pkay, you don't scare me and I'm sorry I thiught you were being mean.

S'all good in the hood.

by Naked Snake 9/30/2009, 7:25 pm

The question was "What do Beast Boy and Raven have in common," yes?

My initial reaction was to list some things, but then I realize "who cares?" What does it honestly matter what two people have in common? It gives you something to build off of, it's true--mutual interests would create common ground for two people to get to know each other. But the bond that you build should transcend such basic, skin-deep things.

Look at Robin and Starfire. They have absolutely nothing in common, save perhaps that they were raised by a foster parent. He's serious and reserved, she's out-going and fun. He's obsessive, she knows how to let things go. He is capable of emerging from his shell to have fun, she lives in a constant state of joy. No common interests, no shared personality features--yet they still got together.

A relationship doesn't need common ground, necessarily. Anyone who's been around the block a few times can tell you that often, the best relationships are the ones where you ARE opposites. Hell, anyone who's watched TV in the last decade can tell you that. Razz

by thewizardofodd12 9/30/2009, 8:08 pm

Naked Snake wrote:The question was "What do Beast Boy and Raven have in common," yes?

My initial reaction was to list some things, but then I realize "who cares?" What does it honestly matter what two people have in common? It gives you something to build off of, it's true--mutual interests would create common ground for two people to get to know each other. But the bond that you build should transcend such basic, skin-deep things.

Look at Robin and Starfire. They have absolutely nothing in common, save perhaps that they were raised by a foster parent. He's serious and reserved, she's out-going and fun. He's obsessive, she knows how to let things go. He is capable of emerging from his shell to have fun, she lives in a constant state of joy. No common interests, no shared personality features--yet they still got together.

A relationship doesn't need common ground, necessarily. Anyone who's been around the block a few times can tell you that often, the best relationships are the ones where you ARE opposites. Hell, anyone who's watched TV in the last decade can tell you that.

The very first episode you know that they end up together. They had romantic tension. But BB and Rae never showed any signs of romance. A hug here or there isn't romance. I hug my girl friends 2 but it doesn't mean I am going out with them.

by Naked Snake 9/30/2009, 8:19 pm

thewizardofodd12 wrote:
Naked Snake wrote:The question was "What do Beast Boy and Raven have in common," yes?

My initial reaction was to list some things, but then I realize "who cares?" What does it honestly matter what two people have in common? It gives you something to build off of, it's true--mutual interests would create common ground for two people to get to know each other. But the bond that you build should transcend such basic, skin-deep things.

Look at Robin and Starfire. They have absolutely nothing in common, save perhaps that they were raised by a foster parent. He's serious and reserved, she's out-going and fun. He's obsessive, she knows how to let things go. He is capable of emerging from his shell to have fun, she lives in a constant state of joy. No common interests, no shared personality features--yet they still got together.

A relationship doesn't need common ground, necessarily. Anyone who's been around the block a few times can tell you that often, the best relationships are the ones where you ARE opposites. Hell, anyone who's watched TV in the last decade can tell you that.
The very first episode you know that they end up together. They had romantic tension. But BB and Rae never showed any signs of romance. A hug here or there isn't romance. I hug my girl friends 2 but it doesn't mean I am going out with them.

Maybe not romantic tension, but the writers felt the need to include a lot of sexual tension from the get-go. Razz

Simply saying "You can tell they're going to end up together," isn't enough--they still have nothing in common, yet they wind up together. THAT was my point.

by thewizardofodd12 9/30/2009, 8:27 pm

Naked Snake wrote:
thewizardofodd12 wrote:
Naked Snake wrote:The question was "What do Beast Boy and Raven have in common," yes?

My initial reaction was to list some things, but then I realize "who cares?" What does it honestly matter what two people have in common? It gives you something to build off of, it's true--mutual interests would create common ground for two people to get to know each other. But the bond that you build should transcend such basic, skin-deep things.

Look at Robin and Starfire. They have absolutely nothing in common, save perhaps that they were raised by a foster parent. He's serious and reserved, she's out-going and fun. He's obsessive, she knows how to let things go. He is capable of emerging from his shell to have fun, she lives in a constant state of joy. No common interests, no shared personality features--yet they still got together.

A relationship doesn't need common ground, necessarily. Anyone who's been around the block a few times can tell you that often, the best relationships are the ones where you ARE opposites. Hell, anyone who's watched TV in the last decade can tell you that.
The very first episode you know that they end up together. They had romantic tension. But BB and Rae never showed any signs of romance. A hug here or there isn't romance. I hug my girl friends 2 but it doesn't mean I am going out with them.

Maybe not romantic tension, but the writers felt the need to include a lot of sexual tension from the get-go.

Simply saying "You can tell they're going to end up together," isn't enough--they still have nothing in common, yet they wind up together. THAT was my point.

Good point.

by Cylor 10/1/2009, 8:29 am

Azrael wrote:And the show was based on the comic book and what happened in them. Maybe not completely - lets face it, the show butchered storylines and characters almost routinely - but the broad strokes, yeah.

Matter of opinion, that. I happen to think the show actually improved on quite a few elements from the comics...Raven's outward personality being one, and -- though I expect this will start an argument -- most of the Judas Contract storyline.

by Azrael 10/1/2009, 8:55 am

Cylor wrote:Raven's outward personality being one

You mean being the typical bitchy goth character? Yeah, I'll pass on that one; they were a dime a dozen even back in '03. The character had it's strong points, but the shows Raven played into a stereotype. I've never known a stereotype to be an improvement.

She was definitely popular, though; but then, so is Shadow the Hedgehog, who is easily the worst addition to the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise since it started.

Cylor wrote:
Azrael wrote:And the show was based on the comic book and what happened in them. Maybe not completely - lets face it, the show butchered storylines and characters almost routinely - but the broad strokes, yeah.
though I expect this will start an argument -- most of the Judas Contract storyline.

I'm sorry man, but I honestly believe that even if it didn't have the comics plots awesome stack up against it still would have been a failure.

I'll be honest; even before I actually read The Judas Contract in the comics, I wasn't impressed by the shows Terra plot. I thought it was one of the series low points. It was basically a glorified bullet list of your average traitor-who-redeems-themselves-at-the-last-second plot you can find in fiction. Of course, it was a kids show, but I figure at some point you have to ask what the point is if they're just going to do one of those plots in a completely by the numbers fashion. The only thing the show honestly, truly improved on was Jinx; in the comics she's always been a rather one note villain who never seems to do anything interesting.

I've found that the Teen Titans shows strengths were in the standalone episodes. The ones tied to the overarching plots of each season often left something to be desired. The only overarching plots that I felt actually even worked were the ones for the first and fifth season; the middle three either blew it completely or missed so many opportunities that it's not even funny.

by Cylor 10/1/2009, 10:36 am

Azrael wrote:
Cylor wrote:Raven's outward personality being one
You mean being the typical bitchy goth character? Yeah, I'll pass on that one; they were a dime a dozen even back in '03. The character had it's strong points, but the shows Raven played into a stereotype. I've never known a stereotype to be an improvement.

I don't agree. The TV series' version of Raven is actually believable as a -- gasp! -- teenage girl, which she never was in the comics. And maybe she was never supposed to come across as one, but it really killed most of her likeability potential, at least in my book.

Cylor wrote:
Azrael wrote:And the show was based on the comic book and what happened in them. Maybe not completely - lets face it, the show butchered storylines and characters almost routinely - but the broad strokes, yeah.
though I expect this will start an argument -- most of the Judas Contract storyline.
I'm sorry man, but I honestly believe that even if it didn't have the comics plots awesome stack up against it still would have been a failure.

I'll be honest; even before I actually read The Judas Contract in the comics, I wasn't impressed by the shows Terra plot. I thought it was one of the series low points. It was basically a glorified bullet list of your average traitor-who-redeems-themselves-at-the-last-second plot you can find in fiction. Of course, it was a kids show, but I figure at some point you have to ask what the point is if they're just going to do one of those plots in a completely by the numbers fashion.

Again, I disagree. I think the show's rendition of the Judas Contract plot packed far more emotional punch than it did in the comics. The plot of the comics storyline -- while certainly very clever and well-executed, on many levels -- also relied very heavily on the reader's perception of comic book "truisms" in 1984 (not to mention a parallel storyline in the X-Men books, for frak's sake) for a lot of the impact of its ultimate resolution. When you take away the audience's biased expectation that Terra will turn out to be good, which flies in the face of everything that's actually in the story itself, what's left is...as you say, very by-the-numbers.

As for simplifying things...the animated version of Terra was far more complex and believable as a person; one who is very confused and makes terrible choices, but there are clearly understandable reasons for them. The original Terra was just a skanky pig across the board, from start to finish. The whole point of her was, in Marv Wolfman's own words, that "some people are just bad".

by Azrael 10/1/2009, 11:28 am

I don't agree. The TV series' version of Raven is actually believable as a -- gasp! -- teenage girl, which she never was in the comics. And maybe she was never supposed to come across as one, but it really killed most of her likeability potential, at least in my book.

We're going to have to agree to disagree then, because I've never equated bitchy goth teen with likable. I still ended up liking the character just fine, but sometimes I just ended up thinking she was a tool. Which most teens indeed are, but that's not the point.

Also, comic Raven wasn't a teenager anyways; she was in college during much of the Marv days and such. She was probably the oldest of them, with Dick probably being second. The teenage body thing didn't happen until she was dead and resurrected by Brother Blood much, much later. Most of then weren't even really teens anymore and those that still were weren't for too much longer; hence why the name of the book eventually changed from "The New Teen Titans" to "The New Titans".

Again, I disagree. I think the show's rendition of the Judas Contract plot packed far more emotional punch than it did in the comics. The plot of the comics storyline -- while certainly very clever and well-executed, on many levels -- also relied very heavily on the reader's perception of comic book "truisms" in 1984 (not to mention a parallel storyline in the X-Men books, for frak's sake) for a lot of the impact of its ultimate resolution. When you take away the audience's biased expectation that Terra will turn out to be good, which flies in the face of everything that's actually in the story itself, what's left is...as you say, very by-the-numbers.

It involves the truisms of today as well; it's still strikingly relevant to what folks expect. Really, what you argue that you needed to know was not necessary. You certainly did not need to be aware of Kitty Pryde - or a parallel storyline I'm not even sure existed, as the "traitor" business didn't crop up in the X-Men until the nineties when everything went off the rails and Jean Grey was never actually a traitor - or even have a perception of truisms. To this day most expect a character who has "gone bad" to pull the save at the last minute; the reason of which is because nine times out of ten that's exactly what happens. To this day you're still expected to believe the best.

On the emotional aspect, I disagree strongly. Judas Contract was only one part of a long running plot through the books. It was the climax of the Terra plot, but it was not the end of it. When you look at the start of the Terra business on through Trial of Deathstroke, you notice that the entire story is Beast Boy's. It's probably one of the most powerful "growing up" style of story I think I've ever seen; Beast Boy goes through very real emotions, denial and all sorts of pain, but eventually he accepts and tries to grow up some. The emotional punch was centered more around Beast Boy than Terra, but I argue it was far more effective and powerful. Judas Contract was the climax, but Trial of Deathstroke was where the real emotional fallout was.

The shows plotline centered around Terra and it had it's emotional punches, but it was very basic; the sort of emotional punch that comes stock with the traitor storyline. Again, it's hard to count how many times we've seen this. Fine for kids - they don't really know better anyways, since they're young and probably haven't seen as many shows with similar plots - but by-the-numbers for anyone else. It never dared to be different, so how much punch it carries or how it will be remembered is up for debate.

As for simplifying things...the animated version of Terra was far more complex and believable as a person; one who is very confused and makes terrible choices, but there are clearly understandable reasons for them.

Been there, seen that; which is really the point I've been making. A lot of those type of characters fall under very similar, if exact, character descriptions as what you said right there. So then what is she? She's not unique in that storyline; her storyline is hardly an uncommon one. She then often fails to be interesting; it's hard to be interested or excited in a stock traitor-turned-good-in-the-end character.

You can make the argument for "more complex" - not that such was hard, because being a complex character was never the point - but "more interesting" isn't exactly something I buy.

by Eve 10/1/2009, 2:06 pm

I agree with Azrael. As much I enjoyed the Animated Show, it was rather shoddier compared to the original comics.

I liked Raven in the AS but I found her character in the comics to be of better dept. And yes as Azrael said, she never was a teenager. Had she been anyways, it would've not made a difference as she was born in a completely different lifestyle.

As for the Judas Contract, I have it in my shelves waiting to be read but I am still reading through the previous issues. I do know a decent about it though and truly Terra's Arc in the AS was very...bland-ish when in comparison to the Judas Contract. In fact, season 2 was the least of my favorite seasons from the AS.

EDIT: Oh, and in regards to BB/T, nope, don't support it. I am an avid BB/Rae supporter.

by BigHazelEyes 10/2/2009, 2:48 pm

Wow, a lot of people like BB/Rae...

by SylverBluTitan 10/2/2009, 4:31 pm

BigHazelEyes wrote:Wow, a lot of people like BB/Rae...

It's an awesome pairing. :D

by Azrael 10/2/2009, 6:57 pm

BigHazelEyes wrote:Wow, a lot of people like BB/Rae...

Health experts agree that BBxRae can help lower your cholesterol.

by **Riaaanna** 10/2/2009, 7:23 pm

Azrael wrote:
BigHazelEyes wrote:Wow, a lot of people like BB/Rae...
Health experts agree that BBxRae can help lower your cholesterol.

XD you and your jokes, Az.

by SylverBluTitan 10/2/2009, 7:26 pm

Rianna Lauren wrote:
Azrael wrote:
BigHazelEyes wrote:Wow, a lot of people like BB/Rae...
Health experts agree that BBxRae can help lower your cholesterol.
XD you and your jokes, Az.

Oh, no. It's no joke. BBRae also helps with headaches and muscle tenseness.

by Sponsored content