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TheDeceiverGod wrote:

germany411 wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:

Rain_of_Tears wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:Health care bill passed.

I know it's awful right?

Sure is awful that millions of uninsured now have access to health care without having to pay out of their anuses (anii?) for it.

wait wait.....does this mean you hate the health bill snake? say it ain't so but you don't like the health care bill? fo da shizzle?

I suspect the powers of sarcasm at work here.

good eye good eye but it truly is a inquiry for snake i am truly curious.

germany411 wrote:

TheDeceiverGod wrote:

germany411 wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:

Rain_of_Tears wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:Health care bill passed.

I know it's awful right?

Sure is awful that millions of uninsured now have access to health care without having to pay out of their anuses (anii?) for it.

wait wait.....does this mean you hate the health bill snake? say it ain't so but you don't like the health care bill? fo da shizzle?

I suspect the powers of sarcasm at work here.

good eye good eye but it truly is a inquiry for snake i am truly curious.

That was very, very plainly sarcasm.

They don't have to pay anything for it. That is why it's so beautiful snake. Because the working man will always be there to take care of those who do not.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! Its offical here! (aka-in me timezone)

Rain_of_Tears wrote:They don't have to pay anything for it. That is why it's so beautiful snake. Because the working man will always be there to take care of those who do not.

Much better for America to remain a laughingstock to the rest of the world by being one of the only first class nations to not take care of the people that live there.

Liberals bring a smile to my face : )

Rain_of_Tears wrote:Liberals bring a smile to my face : )

New Democrat typically, though I did vote Liberal last election in an attempt to give the Conservatives a Minority government.

Go Canada!

Lol. You crack me up sponge.

germany411 wrote:

TheDeceiverGod wrote:

germany411 wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:

Rain_of_Tears wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:Health care bill passed.

I know it's awful right?

Sure is awful that millions of uninsured now have access to health care without having to pay out of their anuses (anii?) for it.

wait wait.....does this mean you hate the health bill snake? say it ain't so but you don't like the health care bill? fo da shizzle?

I suspect the powers of sarcasm at work here.

good eye good eye but it truly is a inquiry for snake i am truly curious.

I support health care reform, though I think getting the economy healthy again should take priority. Then again, if it doesn't get done now, health care reform never will.

They don't have to pay anything for it. That is why it's so beautiful snake. Because the working man will always be there to take care of those who do not.

...

Yeah, it totally works that way. *Totally* works that way. Every single person in America is insured by their employer dear Lord I cannot finish that sentence with a straight face.

YES, major employers offer private health care plans. Many small businesses do too. Do all? No! Does that mean we wind up with millions of people--adults and children--who cannot pay for medical procedures that they may desperately need?

Connect the dots. Not everybody is fortunate enough to have that wonderful commodity that we call "health insurance."

Okay. You are right and I am wrong. Businesses should all provide healthcare. Richard Titmuss observed that social welfare is concerned with the “right order” of relationships in society; that is, it is some ideal of the way in which a society works and fits together to form a suitable place for human habitation and development. I strongly disagree with his many of his other assertions and live by my a more conservative injunction. If you show me good numbers from multiple government websites, PROVING to me that social welfare has worked Snake, then maybe I will convert. This should be fairly interesting.

icegal2779 wrote:MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! Its offical here! (aka-in me timezone)

haha you use dragon cave?

germany411 wrote:

icegal2779 wrote:MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! Its offical here! (aka-in me timezone)

haha you use dragon cave?

Yes

icegal2779 wrote:

germany411 wrote:

icegal2779 wrote:MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! Its offical here! (aka-in me timezone)

haha you use dragon cave?

Yes

cool ^^

Rain_of_Tears wrote:Okay. You are right and I am wrong. Businesses should all provide healthcare. Richard Titmuss observed that social welfare is concerned with the “right order” of relationships in society; that is, it is some ideal of the way in which a society works and fits together to form a suitable place for human habitation and development. I strongly disagree with his many of his other assertions and live by my a more conservative injunction. If you show me good numbers from multiple government websites, PROVING to me that social welfare has worked Snake, then maybe I will convert. This should be fairly interesting.

Proof's in the pudding. As Spongecaeks said, the U.S. is the only Western nation that does not have a socialized health care system. Any given European nation provides their citizens with quality health care, without billing them for thousands of dollars. Why we can't do the same is perplexing.

We're talking about the public health. Medical care shouldn't be some sort of privatized commodity that only the wealthy or fortunate should be able to afford. I agree with you in that I don't think people should simply mooch off the government, but what many people on the right don't realize is that some people simply cannot afford to keep themselves healthy. For a lot of reasons, not simply because they're lazy and don't want to work. And we shouldn't make them suffer because of it.

Public. Freaking. Health.

Naked Snake wrote:

Rain_of_Tears wrote:Okay. You are right and I am wrong. Businesses should all provide healthcare. Richard Titmuss observed that social welfare is concerned with the “right order” of relationships in society; that is, it is some ideal of the way in which a society works and fits together to form a suitable place for human habitation and development. I strongly disagree with his many of his other assertions and live by my a more conservative injunction. If you show me good numbers from multiple government websites, PROVING to me that social welfare has worked Snake, then maybe I will convert. This should be fairly interesting.

Proof's in the pudding. As Spongecaeks said, the U.S. is the only Western nation that does not have a socialized health care system. Any given European nation provides their citizens with quality health care, without billing them for thousands of dollars. Why we can't do the same is perplexing.

We're talking about the public health. Medical care shouldn't be some sort of privatized commodity that only the wealthy or fortunate should be able to afford. I agree with you in that I don't think people should simply mooch off the government, but what many people on the right don't realize is that some people simply cannot afford to keep themselves healthy. For a lot of reasons, not simply because they're lazy and don't want to work. And we shouldn't make them suffer because of it.

Public. Freaking. Health.

I agree that everyone should have healthcare and it should be given out to everyone and not just given to the "special" few...but what about Canada and their healthcare? they have a waiting list to get on the actual waiting list itself. And most doctors said that they would quit if this got passed through and we are already in enough trouble with not enough qualified doctors because a few decades ago they messed up and said that we had enough doctors but in reality we still needed more. So what's going to happen if we backslide into a Canadian like waiting system with doctors quitting and the baby boomers going in for more medical treatment when we already don't have enough doctors? Mind i am not accusing I just want a meaningful intelligent convo.

germany411 wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:

Rain_of_Tears wrote:Okay. You are right and I am wrong. Businesses should all provide healthcare. Richard Titmuss observed that social welfare is concerned with the “right order” of relationships in society; that is, it is some ideal of the way in which a society works and fits together to form a suitable place for human habitation and development. I strongly disagree with his many of his other assertions and live by my a more conservative injunction. If you show me good numbers from multiple government websites, PROVING to me that social welfare has worked Snake, then maybe I will convert. This should be fairly interesting.

Proof's in the pudding. As Spongecaeks said, the U.S. is the only Western nation that does not have a socialized health care system. Any given European nation provides their citizens with quality health care, without billing them for thousands of dollars. Why we can't do the same is perplexing.

We're talking about the public health. Medical care shouldn't be some sort of privatized commodity that only the wealthy or fortunate should be able to afford. I agree with you in that I don't think people should simply mooch off the government, but what many people on the right don't realize is that some people simply cannot afford to keep themselves healthy. For a lot of reasons, not simply because they're lazy and don't want to work. And we shouldn't make them suffer because of it.

Public. Freaking. Health.

I agree that everyone should have healthcare and it should be given out to everyone and not just given to the "special" few...but what about Canada and their healthcare? they have a waiting list to get on the actual waiting list itself. And most doctors said that they would quit if this got passed through and we are already in enough trouble with not enough qualified doctors because a few decades ago they messed up and said that we had enough doctors but in reality we still needed more. So what's going to happen if we backslide into a Canadian like waiting system with doctors quitting and the baby boomers going in for more medical treatment when we already don't have enough doctors? Mind i am not accusing I just want a meaningful intelligent convo.

I totally agree

germany411 wrote:But what about Canada and their healthcare? they have a waiting list to get on the actual waiting list itself. And most doctors said that they would quit if this got passed through and we are already in enough trouble with not enough qualified doctors because a few decades ago they messed up and said that we had enough doctors but in reality we still needed more. So what's going to happen if we backslide into a Canadian like waiting system with doctors quitting and the baby boomers going in for more medical treatment when we already don't have enough doctors? Mind i am not accusing I just want a meaningful intelligent convo.

...this is not what it's like at all, where did you hear this?


EDIT FOR MORE INFORMATION: There are waits to see a doctor, but emergencies and life threatening things are always done ASAP. It's the people that want to get want to get a scan done just because they can that have to wait for a year.

Xenophobic Sponge wrote:

germany411 wrote:But what about Canada and their healthcare? they have a waiting list to get on the actual waiting list itself. And most doctors said that they would quit if this got passed through and we are already in enough trouble with not enough qualified doctors because a few decades ago they messed up and said that we had enough doctors but in reality we still needed more. So what's going to happen if we backslide into a Canadian like waiting system with doctors quitting and the baby boomers going in for more medical treatment when we already don't have enough doctors? Mind i am not accusing I just want a meaningful intelligent convo.

...this is not what it's like at all, where did you hear this?


EDIT FOR MORE INFORMATION: There are waits to see a doctor, but emergencies and life threatening things are always done ASAP. It's the people that want to get want to get a scan done just because they can that have to wait for a year.

it was on the news actually. straight from the mouth of a Canadian. He had like some kind of heart condition that if he didn't get worked on soon he would die by the time the Canadian doctors would get to him. So he came here to America to get operated on because we have a fast in and out system here. It's really a nice idea. And i would totally go for it if there wasn't a waiting list. Trust me if i could help everyone tomorrow i would but unfortunately this isn't possible. Here watch this

Whelp, as someone that has been in and out of the system lately for a variety of reasons in his family and can say that I've never had the problem at all. My walk ins at both my doctor's office and the hospital have all require less than a 12 hour wait. The longest of which was in the middle of the SARS scare when hospitals around here were crazy packed.

My cousin was recently in a car accident and was able to get MRI's and other things done in less than a day.

And my grandmother has been on waiting lists for less than month to get important things done. So I guess I'm just going to the right hospitals? (London Ontario will treat you right)

It also strikes me as strange that if our system was as bad as people have been making it seem, that people here would overwhelmingly support it.


Though I will agree that there probably are some cases where Canadians do need to, or would rather travel to America for a medical reason. With that said, I doubt it's anywhere near the number of Americans that travel to Mexico for health related things

Also, in my last bid to defend the Canadian UHC system. Canada's infant mortality rate and average life span are both better than the USA's all while spending less per person, so we must be doing something right.

icegal2779 wrote:

germany411 wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:

Rain_of_Tears wrote:Okay. You are right and I am wrong. Businesses should all provide healthcare. Richard Titmuss observed that social welfare is concerned with the “right order” of relationships in society; that is, it is some ideal of the way in which a society works and fits together to form a suitable place for human habitation and development. I strongly disagree with his many of his other assertions and live by my a more conservative injunction. If you show me good numbers from multiple government websites, PROVING to me that social welfare has worked Snake, then maybe I will convert. This should be fairly interesting.

Proof's in the pudding. As Spongecaeks said, the U.S. is the only Western nation that does not have a socialized health care system. Any given European nation provides their citizens with quality health care, without billing them for thousands of dollars. Why we can't do the same is perplexing.

We're talking about the public health. Medical care shouldn't be some sort of privatized commodity that only the wealthy or fortunate should be able to afford. I agree with you in that I don't think people should simply mooch off the government, but what many people on the right don't realize is that some people simply cannot afford to keep themselves healthy. For a lot of reasons, not simply because they're lazy and don't want to work. And we shouldn't make them suffer because of it.

Public. Freaking. Health.

I agree that everyone should have healthcare and it should be given out to everyone and not just given to the "special" few...but what about Canada and their healthcare? they have a waiting list to get on the actual waiting list itself. And most doctors said that they would quit if this got passed through and we are already in enough trouble with not enough qualified doctors because a few decades ago they messed up and said that we had enough doctors but in reality we still needed more. So what's going to happen if we backslide into a Canadian like waiting system with doctors quitting and the baby boomers going in for more medical treatment when we already don't have enough doctors? Mind i am not accusing I just want a meaningful intelligent convo.

I totally agree

Snake, you have done little to alter my original perception. You tell me about how all of these other nations have all of this great welfare, but you haven't told me about why it works. In the last few centuries, France has had 7 major social revolutions. God don't even get me started on Germany. England? Tell their debt to income ratio so I can LAUGH! In England, there are families that have NEVER WORKED A DAY IN THEIR LIFE but continue to recieve federal funds. Here in the United States, a man can recieve welfare for being TO FAT TO WORK!!!! XD Why are my parents paying for it? Why am I paying for it? Why can't I put that money in in a high yield savings account so that my children may benefit off of it? I don't understand. Maybe I never will.

Rain_of_Tears wrote:

icegal2779 wrote:

germany411 wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:

Rain_of_Tears wrote:Okay. You are right and I am wrong. Businesses should all provide healthcare. Richard Titmuss observed that social welfare is concerned with the “right order” of relationships in society; that is, it is some ideal of the way in which a society works and fits together to form a suitable place for human habitation and development. I strongly disagree with his many of his other assertions and live by my a more conservative injunction. If you show me good numbers from multiple government websites, PROVING to me that social welfare has worked Snake, then maybe I will convert. This should be fairly interesting.

Proof's in the pudding. As Spongecaeks said, the U.S. is the only Western nation that does not have a socialized health care system. Any given European nation provides their citizens with quality health care, without billing them for thousands of dollars. Why we can't do the same is perplexing.

We're talking about the public health. Medical care shouldn't be some sort of privatized commodity that only the wealthy or fortunate should be able to afford. I agree with you in that I don't think people should simply mooch off the government, but what many people on the right don't realize is that some people simply cannot afford to keep themselves healthy. For a lot of reasons, not simply because they're lazy and don't want to work. And we shouldn't make them suffer because of it.

Public. Freaking. Health.

I agree that everyone should have healthcare and it should be given out to everyone and not just given to the "special" few...but what about Canada and their healthcare? they have a waiting list to get on the actual waiting list itself. And most doctors said that they would quit if this got passed through and we are already in enough trouble with not enough qualified doctors because a few decades ago they messed up and said that we had enough doctors but in reality we still needed more. So what's going to happen if we backslide into a Canadian like waiting system with doctors quitting and the baby boomers going in for more medical treatment when we already don't have enough doctors? Mind i am not accusing I just want a meaningful intelligent convo.

I totally agree

Snake, you have done little to alter my original perception. You tell me about how all of these other nations have all of this great welfare, but you haven't told me about why it works. In the last few centuries, France has had 7 major social revolutions. God don't even get me started on Germany. England? Tell their debt to income ratio so I can LAUGH! In England, there are families that have NEVER WORKED A DAY IN THEIR LIFE but continue to recieve federal funds. Here in the United States, a man can recieve welfare for being TO FAT TO WORK!!!! XD Why are my parents paying for it? Why am I paying for it? Why can't I put that money in in a high yield savings account so that my children may benefit off of it? I don't understand. Maybe I never will.

I deal in the how. Not the why. If you're looking to hash out some quasi-philosophical social bull, I'm not your man.

People take advantage of the system. That doesn't mean the system itself is fundamentally wrong. The same law that allows a lazy-ass person to mooch also makes sure that someone who is genuinely crippled will be able to afford groceries--and, now, health care.

Put it this way--Roman Polanski. The U.S. wanted to extradite Roman Polanski in order to prosecute him. France--and Poland, if I remember correctly--refused to let that happen. He exploited that for years in order to dodge justice. That's terribly unfair, yes, but that same system would protect a fugitive of a country ruled by a brutal dictator seeking asylum from being sent home to torture and certain death.

I'd also like to point out how you're deliberately ignoring Spongecaeks in order to argue a point with me, claiming to have the upper hand. Maybe the fact that I have "done little to alter" your belief may have something to do with the fact that it's Christmas and I've been busy.

Naked Snake wrote:it's Christmas and I've been busy.

Oh please, like anyone loves you.

Xenophobic Sponge wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:it's Christmas and I've been busy.

Oh please, like anyone loves you.

*I* love *MYSELF* and that's enough for me.

Naked Snake wrote:

Xenophobic Sponge wrote:

Naked Snake wrote:it's Christmas and I've been busy.

Oh please, like anyone loves you.

*I* love *MYSELF* and that's enough for me.

Sounds healthy, keep with it!

That you would post something of such contentious nature and decline what could have been such a pleasant conversation is to me rather astounding. Why would you say anything about healthcare at all? Perhaps you were trying to illicit a response. Perhaps you were delivering a bland and neutral statement. I said educate me lol, but you want to spout off about some immutable neutral medium. I of course have not come looking for a fight. I was just simply curious as to what exactly would prompt someone to randomly post ordinary news that could have been read on the front page of any paper or yahoo.com. Sounded like you were making a victory lap when I read it.
Sponge made a point too, that is also true.
However while Canada has 33,000,000 people, the United States has over 300,000,000 people, so there is a vast difference. Thank you Sponge for your imput, that is after all, what I asked for. Apparently Snake does not share your sentiments about education.
Quasi-philosophical hashings? Ouch*
How absolutely vindictive. ^___^
Aside from this pathetic display of narcissism (I'll be honest, I am not at all without fault), I would like to wish everyone a merry christmas, and pray for the safety of their loved ones.